Regarding the JW response I should have said "RUN AWAY,RUN AWAY AND BRING UP THE HOLY HANDGRANADE".
One way to deal with big white rabits or white elephants.
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Bart Belteshassur
JoinedPosts by Bart Belteshassur
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angels and women
by caroline77 ini was told by jw's that angels came down to earth before the flood, and had children with women.. i have a question about this and would like the sort of answer a jw would give so that i can be ready for them when they come to my door.. if one third of god's angelic staff were banished to earth, are they doing this now?.
if not, what is stopping them?.
if so, where are all these half angel children?.
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angels and women
by caroline77 ini was told by jw's that angels came down to earth before the flood, and had children with women.. i have a question about this and would like the sort of answer a jw would give so that i can be ready for them when they come to my door.. if one third of god's angelic staff were banished to earth, are they doing this now?.
if not, what is stopping them?.
if so, where are all these half angel children?.
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Bart Belteshassur
caroline77.
I think that Sarahsmile's summary of the comments so far is the answer you will get, but only if you persist in getting one. JWs will be very reluctant to dicuss any to do with demons as they see it, just try and call one to appear they'll probably fait, or have a heart attack.LOL.
If they go away to take advice it is unlikly they will be back in a hurry, or if they do it will be with an elder or higher they do not really have an answer to to question. Their understanding of Angelic behaviour is so limited to say the least.
It is interesting however to note that JWs define angels in the following ways, The Overseeors of their JW congregations (um?,ah..,), Those that fell with Satan,his Demons (oh!), Princes, Messengers (this is correct from the the greek), Sinning Overseeors of first century congregations (um?, ah.....), I will let you draw you own conclusions.
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Exodus 24:10 - The Israelites saw Jehovah? Has this scripture ever been explained?
by truthseeker inhas anyone really pondered what this means?
jehovah said that no man can see god and live, and here at least 70 people saw jehovah standing on a bright blue pavement.
24 then the lord said to moses, come up to the lord , you and aaron, nadab and abihu, and seventy of the elders of israel.
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Bart Belteshassur
Proceesor - Good post, however the section from witchtower that deals with David's census appears to in error. It says that the punishment for Israel was three years of famine, but in both 2Samuel 21:15 and 1 Chrons 21:14 it is three days of Pestilence that God gives. I reason I have made this pointis because someone made this incorrect statement in another thread recently and it didn@ ring any bells with me then either.
Wonderment - I would take much notice of Archer he is a well know inerrantist and only has some kind of 1940s BA in divinity, His proper qualifications are primarily in classics and I think his dad gave him a law degree. In any event he take this text totally out of it's context to atempt to prove th point. In the preciding verses God appears to as a pillar of cloud to Aton and Miriam Num 12;5 and is explaining to them thathe appears to prophet in visions and dreams but to Moses has been talking to him mouth to mouth, meaning face to face ,so that Moses can see the manner or reactions of God and understand that God is not speaking to him in riddles Num 12 5-8.
Does this imply that God talks in riddles to everyone he speaks to who can't see him, and therefore can not be trusted? I think that is highly likely don't you?
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angels and women
by caroline77 ini was told by jw's that angels came down to earth before the flood, and had children with women.. i have a question about this and would like the sort of answer a jw would give so that i can be ready for them when they come to my door.. if one third of god's angelic staff were banished to earth, are they doing this now?.
if not, what is stopping them?.
if so, where are all these half angel children?.
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Bart Belteshassur
caroline77 - From the book "Revaltion, Its Grand Climax at Hand!". Chapter 27 para 9 "The dragon has authority also in the spirit realm.......................
........Satan also cast them down ( the third of the stars, the angels) to the earth. This no doubt refers to Noah's day before the Flood, whenSatan induced the disobedient sons of God to go down to the earth and cohabit with the daughters of men.As a punishment.........Tartarus.-Genesis 6;4; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6."
So the answer to you question is that a JW will say that there are no fallen angels on the earth, because the event happen before the Flood and the demon offenders are locked in Tartarus, end of debate.
They are completely wrong with this line of thinking, but as they don't think it makes perfect sense.
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angels and women
by caroline77 ini was told by jw's that angels came down to earth before the flood, and had children with women.. i have a question about this and would like the sort of answer a jw would give so that i can be ready for them when they come to my door.. if one third of god's angelic staff were banished to earth, are they doing this now?.
if not, what is stopping them?.
if so, where are all these half angel children?.
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Bart Belteshassur
Sarahsmile - "No where in the bible that it says Angels took wives but it is in the Book of Enoch and Russell quoted it."
Is this what you really ment to say as you quote Gen 6;2 above which reads "So they began to take as wives all whom they chose."?
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Exodus 24:10 - The Israelites saw Jehovah? Has this scripture ever been explained?
by truthseeker inhas anyone really pondered what this means?
jehovah said that no man can see god and live, and here at least 70 people saw jehovah standing on a bright blue pavement.
24 then the lord said to moses, come up to the lord , you and aaron, nadab and abihu, and seventy of the elders of israel.
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Bart Belteshassur
westiebilly 11 - John 1;18 "No man has seen God at any time,"
Apognophos - The old NWT inserts the words " began to" and translates saw as see to make this a future and not a past event. The new NWT uses the word see instead of saw giving the implication of a prophetic vision in the future. The word here in Greek is the past tense of to spectate as I explained ealier. As this event has evidently happen recently in the passed and Jesus has not been in "heavan" since his birth, it implies that the fall of Satan from heaven happen on earth and makes this event quite normal as Satan most be a person on the earth as Jesus is. Thats how I understand it.
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Exodus 24:10 - The Israelites saw Jehovah? Has this scripture ever been explained?
by truthseeker inhas anyone really pondered what this means?
jehovah said that no man can see god and live, and here at least 70 people saw jehovah standing on a bright blue pavement.
24 then the lord said to moses, come up to the lord , you and aaron, nadab and abihu, and seventy of the elders of israel.
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Bart Belteshassur
Apognophos and truthseeker,
You are both right. In verse 10 the word means to physically see or comprehend something, and in verse 11 it can be used of a vision. However a better understanding of verse 11 is that of divine revaltion from the seeing in versr 10 and which led to the covenant.
The WT do mess with the true meanings of words but in a similar instance they translate Luke 10:18 as in the new NWT "I see Satan already fallen" and as in the previous version, "I began to behold Satan already fallen,"when it is clear that the Greek word used here is to actual witness be a spectator physically at a theatre or event. This is done to prevent satan falling from hevan before 1914, so they imply it is a prophetic vision of seeing when in fact the NT specifically states that Jesus was present when the event happened in the past when he is speaking..
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Being an Atheist Is Bad For Your Health
by Space Madness ini stopped believing in god in july 2013. in the first 3 months or so i felt liberated and relieved that i can live my life anyway i wanted without worrying about an invisible being watching my every move.
i also felt slightly superior that i was able to figure out that god isn't real while the majority of mankind continued to be fooled.
atfer the feelings of excitment statrted to wear off, i started to become more depressed and empty.
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Bart Belteshassur
If we take the mean figures for the two sets of counties you list:
for suicide- high atheist = 21.7ppp100,00, against high religion = 2.44ppp100,000.
Whilst these figures agree with you op comments, if you take the mean figures for homicide rates the result are somewhat shocking:
for homicide- high atheist = 0.98ppp100,000 against high religion = 14.9ppp100,000.
This shows that were we have free will to determine ending own lives the suicide rate increases by 8.89 , and in countries where taboos exist the rate of homicide increases 15.2 times.
Would this lead us to conclude that in high religious counties there is a lower requirement to take ones own life because someone else is nearly twice as likely to do it for you? I think not but if you follow the reasoning expressed in the op this would be the conclusion.
As Durkheim comments during periods of war the suicide rates fell considerablely and I would suggest that higher rates are more affected by the lowering or raising of the level of peace and stability within a country than religious adherence.
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The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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Bart Belteshassur
Cofty- Did you say that we were not allowed to use logical mathmatical models. Human and natural influence on the planet has been modelled this way for years. If the model is in error please show me where and I may be able to correct it. This is how science and logic work through peer review is it not.
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The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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Bart Belteshassur
Cofty- The problem then as defined is that if God is Perfect Love and if he comits an action which is the opposite of Perfect Love, the christain theology is flawed because he can not be defined as Perfect Love as this is an absolute.
However does his non action in a given situation constitute the opposite of Perfect Love, and I would argue it does not.
If the Perfect love is absolute, then two actions of it will not be double Perfect, it will and can only remain perfect.
It also is true that an action of perfection can only be nullified by the opposite action, and therefore a non action which by definition is nothing can not have any effect on the perfect action.
Therefore we can describe these actions as mathmatical functions:
Perfect Love = 1
Non action = 0
Opposite PL = -1
As shown 1+1 = 1 then addition is not a funtion that can be used to combine the effects of two actions of perfect love. The function which controls perfect love action can only be 1x1=1.
So this proves that the funtion in this problem is the product of the two actions.
Therefore: 1x1=1, 0x0=0, and -1x-1=1
So logic and reason prove that two opposite actions of perfect love equal perfect love.
I will admit that in the singular event this is not the case, but we are looking at actions in the real world and as the Japanese tsunami is a second event then the above proof holds true. To disprove this it needs to be shown that the total number of natural disaster event are always an odd number.
Please pick out the flaws in this as I can not see them at present although I don't except it can this simple.
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